@emil@x0f.org heh, I type Dvorak on a QWERTY keyboard, so looking at my keyboard while typing is a distraction. 😃

@harding @emil same! programmer dvorak on a qwerty (i usually go for all-black keys now). and yes, i prefer keyboards without the distraction of LED lighting.

@jon @harding @emil

Curious, do you guys ever have to look for non-alphabetic symbols? :) I've been a touch typer (qwerty) for like 35 years or something ridiculous (learnt in my early teens - on a typewriter!) but i still struggle sometimes with symbols, depending on the keyboard.

@waxwing @jon @emil@x0f.org I don't think I ever really look, although sometimes I do a bit of off-by-one-key trial and error. I've been a touch typer also since my teens (20 years) and dvorak for over 10 years.

The one thing I do still look at the keyboard for is one-handed keyboard use when I'm just lazily browsing and want to do things like Ctrl-Tab or trigger some window manager options.

@harding @waxwing @emil What harding said 👍, good points. Same, learned to touch type in school at age 12 or so (what a useful class) but only switched to dvorak a little over a year ago. Was a 90wpm typer in qwerty, now 60ish in dvorak but my hands feel better, especially my left hand which qwerty overuses.

I actually use dvp (programmer dvorak), and so now do off-by-one trial and error more with numbers and less with symbols, since the symbols get more importance and better placement.

@jon @waxwing @emil@x0f.org Yeah, I switched for relief from repetitive strain injuries that were getting worse every year. If it wasn't for dvorak and the workrave applet, I doubt I'd be writing today.

@harding @waxwing @emil this ^... severe hand/wrist rsi in the middle of a six-month freelance death march for the paris airports made me desperate. in the same month i switched to dvorak, bought kinesis foot pedals, and tried 15+ ergonomic/mechanical/topre keyboards of all sizes and formats.

@harding @waxwing @emil TIL about workrave, ty dave. it's even in the debian dist: apt show workrave. will try. i think what saved my hands the most was no longer using laptop keyboards (the hand/wrist position they induce is really bad) & placing the mech or topre keyboard on my knees sitting straight or leaning back somewhat instead of leaning forward hunched over the laptop, but dvorak helped, perhaps partly by slowing me down

@jon @waxwing @emil@x0f.org In case you want more info, here's an article I wrote about it a decade ago (not much has changed): linux.com/news/workrave-fights

For laptop keyboards, I find that I'm ok if I use a full-sized keyboard (e.g. laptops with 14-inch or larger screens) and I'm careful about my hand position. That said, I have a split keyboard[1] for desktop use that allows me to get ideal positioning.

I've never tried foot peddles for shifting keys; that's interesting.

[1] ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/

@harding @jon @waxwing @emil @FreePietje Ok this keyboard is EPIC! I need it!

Do you guys have any preferred switches? Especially those with RSI experience? My main kb has MX clears (the heavy-non-clicky ones). I also have a small kb with browns (the lighter variant). My hands sometimes feel tired after an active day on the clears. But on the browns I sometimes feel that my typing goes ahead of me, as if I need the delay of the heavier bump fr my hands to decide which key to go next.



@stevenroose @jon @waxwing @emil@x0f.org @FreePietje I have the browns and like them, but I haven't experimented with the others, so I don't know how they compare.

@harding @stevenroose @waxwing @emil @FreePietje yeah, and how you like switches can depend a lot on the keyboard they are housed in. for example, my MX brown use has been limited to one keyboard, whereas they could be great in another one

@harding @stevenroose @waxwing @emil @FreePietje for instance, i have MX blues in quite a few keyboards, and my appreciation of them ranges from awful to great depending on that

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