I almost never psuedo-RT stuff from Twitter, but I very strongly agree with the anti-forced-tender position in this thread. https://twitter.com/jerrybrito/status/1405660809024393221
C.f. "Art. 7. Every economic agent must accept bitcoin as payment when offered to him by whoever acquires a good or service." https://freopp.org/el-salvadors-bitcoin-law-full-proposed-english-text-9a2153ad1d19
@crunklord420 There's an exception and it's vague, but vagueness doesn't mean any legal judgement will favor the citizen claiming an exemption. In general, you shouldn't depend on a vague law being interpreted the way you want.
@crunklord420 @harding I am receiving feedback from people on the ground in El Salvador. People are scared and confused. The 90 days thing feels like a deadline and they don’t know what to do. The debate on telegram groups and Twitter is really heated. I totally agree with the thread. Why include the government when bitcoin was exactly created to not depend on the government? Makes me doubt about Jack and Strike intentions. Don’t trust, verify.
@crunklord420 @harding there so many red flags. It’s not just the law thing. Scammers are doing what they want with the people. We are a group of bitcoiners from South America with experience and we are trying to help people clear the doubts but it’s not enough. Didn’t strike think about the education piece? Wasn’t it obvious the people from El Salvador were going to be exposed to scammers like this?
@crunklord420 @harding we as bitcoiners have pointed out scammer behaviors when a guy jumps on a stage and puts up an act. This time was a “pro bitcoin” guy putting up the act and everyone clapped without naturally questioning the reasons of the announcement and how it was made… Satoshi disappeared. He didn’t like the spotlight. Strike and the president love the spotlight. Too many red flags. I hope I am wrong for the sake of the people.
@Atlas_Khan may accept would be great. Other things in that law like allowing people to pay their taxes in BTC and not having to pay capital gains on BTC are great. People just shouldn't be forced to use bitcoin (or any other currency).
From what we understand, the vendor can choose whether the money is converted directly back into #USD or whether they keep it in #BTC. The nation itself will have a massive pool from which people can dip into to exchange back into Fiat.
So, end-of-the-day its a massive gain in terms of choice, no?
I was looking for clarification wrt 'legal tender' as I thought one MUST accept legal tender, not CAN or SHOULD.
Pizza chain Dominos has recently stopped accepting cash payments in .nl and I was wondering whether I can do more then just not/never buy there again, iow legal action.
It's a new phenomenon here and if there's a way I can force them to reverse that decision, that'll probably stop others from doing that.
Yes, being legal tender if you insist on using it they cannot stop you. Sorry to hear they are making it hard though. We don't think they have an obligation to have the correct change on hand but if they are a professional institution they really should.
@FreePietje @dsfgs @Atlas_Khan At the US federal level, there'd be no requirement for Dominos to take your cash. Some states and some cities have laws requiring businesses to accept cash (the laws are advocated to ensure people without access to bank services can still buy stuff).
Legal tender in the US just means that courts can convert other forms of debt into cash obligations. Nobody is forced to accept USD at the point of sale.
Without meaning to generalise Islamic folk seem really switched on. The govt is supposed to be an embodiment of ThePeople but USA is another thing entirely, and noone can blame them for strongly disliking it.
Re Vominoes, #publicShaming could work. A #flyer that explains, 'global pizza franchise in area disrespects privacy and forces online fiat payments, as independent citizen I shame them, here's n alternatives".
Generally speaking almost all effective movements require grassroots, local, ground based action. It's just how most good things that favour the people, get started.
Flyers over the ages have been played importants roles.
Its part of the reason we developed a (CC-BY-SA) #)FediFlyer, which anyone can print. You are welcome to change the text and images, if you change it a lot we just ask that our attribution be removed.
@Atlas_Khan @dsfgs @FreePietje I don't see consumers and merchants as two separate classes but as two halves of one exchange aimed at improving their mutual material prosperity. I think it's the abstraction that is money which allows you to see them as separate. If we were talking about barter, it would be clearer. If Alice and Bob agree to trade apples for bananas, neither one should be able to force the other to accept Carol's cantalope.
Also in a hyperinflation, all things remaining equal, the amount of physical cash will start to vanish because the physical printers, at least in Australia (we have plastic notes with holograms and such), will not be able to keep up with it hyperinflation. Our opinion. Could be wrong.
H'Infl'n is an disaster, distinct from inflation. It can't be policed.
The person doing the purchase has utmost choice. That is important from a democratic perspective. If vendors want to remain network-free then they'll be permitted to continue that, but for those vendors who over the past years tacitly accept/adopt a range of abstract digital credit systems, and actually #USD (or in our case #AUD) is one, could be seen as a disturbing one, then accepting BTC (converting it immediately to USD at 0 cost) is just another interface.
@FreePietje @harding @Atlas_Khan Yeah AFAIK this is not correct. Legal tender means that "it must be accepted to settle all debt", which means that if someone has a debt to you, he is allowed to settle it to you with the legal tender.
But that has no effect on commercial txs. There might be other laws restricting what currencies you can accept for commercial txs, but that's unrelated to legal tender.
AFAIK it's legal in (most) Europe(an countries) to refuse cash or card payments.
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